Changes to strategies (LB, DS, IF, NC)

Strategy stats has been revised. Thanks to everyone who participated in this discussion:
http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=6956&topicsearch=&page=1

Here's the list of changes:

Lucky Bastard: +10 critical for all units, with the exception of Militia, Infantry and Marines that get +8 (was +5 for all)
Desert Storm: +1 Marine capacity for Helicopters, -1 attack and defense for Infantry ~~and no defense bonuses for Infantry~~
Iron Fist: -3 Transport and Air Transport range (was -5)
Naval Commander: +5 Transport capacity

Amok | 23.01.2013

Comments

Comments: 31 Visited by: 384 users

Safari
Victorious Secret

Posts: 2545
From: Austria

23.01.2013 - 06:26

Safari

Yay. i already see the boom for Naval Commander now

(at least i will play it)

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Mobster (Mod)
Paradox

Posts: 717
From: Turkey

23.01.2013 - 06:29

Mobster (Mod)

Very good. Thanks.

nonames

Posts: 1325
From: UK

23.01.2013 - 07:40

nonames

Yeah ds infantry aren't cost effective anymore, best to build militia.

Hugosch
BiteMe

Posts: 2219
From: Netherlands

23.01.2013 - 07:55

Hugosch

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Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.

Milkyy
Stalins Martians

Posts: 1267
From: Turkey

23.01.2013 - 07:58

Milkyy

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AlexMeza
Account deleted

23.01.2013 - 08:04

AlexMeza
Account deleted

I liked the NC and IF idea but LB is op and DS can't defend.
LB used to be +15, then nerfed to +10, and then to +5 but you're buffing it again. (I beat 8 infs with 3 tanks)
And DS now has a really bad defence.

Hugosch
BiteMe

Posts: 2219
From: Netherlands

23.01.2013 - 08:15

Hugosch

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 08:04

I liked the idea of NC but the rest are all op strats now..
LB used to be +15, then nerfed to +10, now it's +5 because it was still op.
Iron Fist can expand very quick now.
And DS now has a shit defence. Great.

There has been a discussion for 2weeks in the forum; i didn't see you posting there; nor in any other idea's topics and now you are subsequently complaining. Most people in the topic agreed, so now just wait and see how things go (and post new idea if you don't like the current strategies!).

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Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.

Pinheiro

Posts: 1603
From: Brazil

23.01.2013 - 08:17

Pinheiro

Another good example of how the devs are always willing to hear the community in AW. Thanks guys, good work!

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"Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms".

Spart
Syndicate

Posts: 1711
From: USA

23.01.2013 - 08:45

Spart

5/5 Update. Great job Amok and Ivan. Love the frequent updates we have been getting lately. Awesome work!

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"In this game, everyone is hated."
~Xenosapien

Lemonade
Strategy - None

Posts: 1464
From: Equatorial Guinea

23.01.2013 - 10:24

Lemonade

Ds infantry should be the same as sm infantry

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― Carl von Clausewitz

Hugosch
BiteMe

Posts: 2219
From: Netherlands

23.01.2013 - 10:31

Hugosch

This is a quote of Cow, when this update was suggested by Desu:

Written by Guest, 12.01.2013 at 08:20

I support Desu's original suggestions. Especially the ones concerning Iron Fist and Desert Storm.

This is a quote of Cow, when the update is implemented:

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 08:28

Alex is right though. Instead of the suggested -1 defence DS got a defence, attack AND bonus nerf. This is quite an overnerf.

I would also like to refer to your last change of mind with the ELO suggestions and change of mind with the update on Ukraine/Turkey. I've told this many times before; but with your different opinions every day its hard to satisfy you.

Sorry for the off-topic a bit; i really like this update and i fully agree on Pinheiro's comment

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Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.

Desu

Posts: 898
From: Canada

23.01.2013 - 10:57

Desu

And blitzkrieg still isn't adjusted. Pls halp blitz, think of the children. Also my 3rd fav strat ok:
Favorite strategies: Sky Menace, Imperialist, Blitzkrieg

And the DS does seem overnerfed with -1 AND no bonus defence. Give its defence bonus back at least. Or better yet, why not just -1 attack and one of the other compromises. I would like to revise, and say -1 attack shouldn't be accompanied with -1 defence.

Adjust it so it has its bonus back, and defence, and just add +10 cost or -1 range to the inf. -1 attack is fine, but I now realize that nerfing the defence just makes this strategy like TG, only able to attack.

edit: Also it'd be helpful if you completely removed IF's transport nerf. You only did it to -3, not -2.

Aristosseur
zizonists

Posts: 1486
From: Greece

23.01.2013 - 11:03

Aristosseur

I completely agree with desu, also nice to see stuff done.
btw these changes are only vril's post, it's not him who received the wide support nor the original thread.

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Amok (Admin)
Squirrels!

Posts: 2136
From: UK

23.01.2013 - 11:08

Amok (Admin)

Fine, I've put back the Infantry defense bonus.

tophat

Posts: 3885
From: Canada

23.01.2013 - 11:24

tophat

Thanks this is great.

Don't forget blitz, as Desu has explained.

Lastly, don't forget to edit the descriptions for the strategies. (lucky bastard still says +5 critical hits for example)

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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.

VRIL
Dalmati

Posts: 1090

23.01.2013 - 11:55

VRIL

Yea, I forgot about the Blitz strat...

But to be honest I doubt that a strategy without any proper defensive unit will ever be useful on
a high level.

tophat

Posts: 3885
From: Canada

23.01.2013 - 11:58

tophat

It should be -1 defense to all units for blitz.

with +1 attack to infantry

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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.

AlexMeza
Account deleted

23.01.2013 - 12:40

AlexMeza
Account deleted

LB should be nerfed.

tophat

Posts: 3885
From: Canada

23.01.2013 - 12:46

tophat

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:40

LB should be nerfed.

No, not at all. It's a lucked based strategy, and it's still not that lucky. The LB infantry is about the equivalent of the IF infantry. The only unit that is relatively very strong is the tank, which is good because it's 130 cost as a land unit. (compared to the sm bomber or the ds helicopter) LB is very strong however in big stack battles, but the cost balances it because spamming isn't very efficient with it. So, even though it's very powerful in large scale battles, the opponent can still win quantity over quality because his units are cheaper. The only unit you can spam is infantry, which is as I said the equivalent of the IF infantry exept with a luck factor instead of a sure given HP, which evidently makes IF more reliable. However, LB has more range than IF so it balances out once again.
Atm, it's quite balanced.

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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.

AlexMeza
Account deleted

23.01.2013 - 12:51

AlexMeza
Account deleted

Written by tophat, 23.01.2013 at 12:46

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:40

LB should be nerfed.

No, not at all. It's a lucked based strategy, and it's still not that lucky. The LB infantry is about the equivalent of the IF infantry. The only unit that is relatively very strong is the tank, which is good because it's 130 cost as a land unit. (compared to the sm bomber or the ds helicopter) LB is very strong however in big stack battles, but the cost balances it because spamming isn't very efficient with it. So, even though it's very powerful in large scale battles, the opponent can still win quantity over quality because his units are cheaper. The only unit you can spam is infantry, which is as I said the equivalent of the IF infantry exept with a luck factor instead of a sure given HP, which evidently makes IF more reliable. However, LB has more range than IF so it balances out once again.
Atm, it's quite balanced.

I beat 8 infs with 5 infs + gen.

tophat

Posts: 3885
From: Canada

23.01.2013 - 12:54

tophat

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:51

Written by tophat, 23.01.2013 at 12:46

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:40

LB should be nerfed.

No, not at all. It's a lucked based strategy, and it's still not that lucky. The LB infantry is about the equivalent of the IF infantry. The only unit that is relatively very strong is the tank, which is good because it's 130 cost as a land unit. (compared to the sm bomber or the ds helicopter) LB is very strong however in big stack battles, but the cost balances it because spamming isn't very efficient with it. So, even though it's very powerful in large scale battles, the opponent can still win quantity over quality because his units are cheaper. The only unit you can spam is infantry, which is as I said the equivalent of the IF infantry exept with a luck factor instead of a sure given HP, which evidently makes IF more reliable. However, LB has more range than IF so it balances out once again.
Atm, it's quite balanced.

I beat 8 infs with 5 infs + gen.

Exactly, it's a luck strategy it'll happen. But not often. That roll will only happen about 10% of the time, which is not reliable, so you wouldn't use it in a game.

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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.

Tundy
Salt Industries

Posts: 5885

23.01.2013 - 20:10

Tundy

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:51

Written by tophat, 23.01.2013 at 12:46

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:40

LB should be nerfed.

No, not at all. It's a lucked based strategy, and it's still not that lucky. The LB infantry is about the equivalent of the IF infantry. The only unit that is relatively very strong is the tank, which is good because it's 130 cost as a land unit. (compared to the sm bomber or the ds helicopter) LB is very strong however in big stack battles, but the cost balances it because spamming isn't very efficient with it. So, even though it's very powerful in large scale battles, the opponent can still win quantity over quality because his units are cheaper. The only unit you can spam is infantry, which is as I said the equivalent of the IF infantry exept with a luck factor instead of a sure given HP, which evidently makes IF more reliable. However, LB has more range than IF so it balances out once again.
Atm, it's quite balanced.

I beat 8 infs with 5 infs + gen.

is call "Lucky" for a reason.
and LB was never op with the +15.

Fruit
zizonists

Posts: 1654
From: Czech Republic

24.01.2013 - 02:51

Fruit

Looks good, only thing I would change is IF -3 to -2 because the magnitude of -1 HP since that was implemented is huge, perhaps people don't quite understand how powerful HP is.

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Written by Amok, 31.08.2012 at 03:10
Fruit's theory is correct

Written by tophat, 30.08.2012 at 21:04
Fruit is right

AlexMeza
Account deleted

24.01.2013 - 07:17

AlexMeza
Account deleted

Quote:
Quote:
Written by tophat, 23.01.2013 at 12:54

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:51

Written by tophat, 23.01.2013 at 12:46

Written by Guest, 23.01.2013 at 12:40

LB should be nerfed.

No, not at all. It's a lucked based strategy, and it's still not that lucky. The LB infantry is about the equivalent of the IF infantry. The only unit that is relatively very strong is the tank, which is good because it's 130 cost as a land unit. (compared to the sm bomber or the ds helicopter) LB is very strong however in big stack battles, but the cost balances it because spamming isn't very efficient with it. So, even though it's very powerful in large scale battles, the opponent can still win quantity over quality because his units are cheaper. The only unit you can spam is infantry, which is as I said the equivalent of the IF infantry exept with a luck factor instead of a sure given HP, which evidently makes IF more reliable. However, LB has more range than IF so it balances out once again.
Atm, it's quite balanced.

I beat 8 infs with 5 infs + gen.

Exactly, it's a luck strategy it'll happen. But not often. That roll will only happen about 10% of the time, which is not reliable, so you wouldn't use it in a game.

is call "Lucky" for a reason.
and LB was never op with the +15.

It was the first test I made but okay lol.

themartinmcfly
ELITE Clan

Posts: 46
From: Australia

24.01.2013 - 23:02

themartinmcfly

Thanks for the changes!

Soul

Posts: 355

25.01.2013 - 13:14

Soul

I'm okay with everything just not liking the DS inf, like some other people lol, I think they should be the same as SM inf (just -1 attack). LB is fine, you can use LB and still have horrible roles sadly, so it's far from OP.

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Written by Amok, 12.03.2012 at 07:05

Why? It's much easier with the popup thingie buttons...

Written by Amok, 15.05.2013 at 06:51

Wow man, you're so wrong, I don't even know where to begin with

AlexMeza
Account deleted

25.01.2013 - 13:21

AlexMeza
Account deleted

Written by Soul, 25.01.2013 at 13:14

I'm okay with everything just not liking the DS inf, like some other people lol, I think they should be the same as SM inf (just -1 attack). LB is fine, you can use LB and still have horrible roles sadly, so it's far from OP.

I think they already gave the +1 def back.

Soul

Posts: 355

25.01.2013 - 13:23

Soul

Written by Guest, 25.01.2013 at 13:21

Written by Soul, 25.01.2013 at 13:14

I'm okay with everything just not liking the DS inf, like some other people lol, I think they should be the same as SM inf (just -1 attack). LB is fine, you can use LB and still have horrible roles sadly, so it's far from OP.

I think they already gave the +1 def back.

I tried it out earlier, it had the def bonus for being in cities, but it said it had -1 def (without def bonus in cities its like -2 def). Lemme recheck lol.

Edit: Still says it has -1 def when I tried it out.

Inf with DS have 3 attk and 5 def, ignoring city bonus.

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Written by Amok, 12.03.2012 at 07:05

Why? It's much easier with the popup thingie buttons...

Written by Amok, 15.05.2013 at 06:51

Wow man, you're so wrong, I don't even know where to begin with

AlexMeza
Account deleted

25.01.2013 - 13:30

AlexMeza
Account deleted

Written by Soul, 25.01.2013 at 13:23

Written by Guest, 25.01.2013 at 13:21

Written by Soul, 25.01.2013 at 13:14

I'm okay with everything just not liking the DS inf, like some other people lol, I think they should be the same as SM inf (just -1 attack). LB is fine, you can use LB and still have horrible roles sadly, so it's far from OP.

I think they already gave the +1 def back.

I tried it out earlier, it had the def bonus for being in cities, but it said it had -1 def (without def bonus in cities its like -2 def). Lemme recheck lol.

Edit: Still says it has -1 def when I tried it out.

Inf with DS have 3 attk and 5 def, ignoring city bonus.

Oh true, sorry.
I support this.

Tundy
Salt Industries

Posts: 5885

27.01.2013 - 13:59

Tundy

Written by Meester, 26.01.2013 at 01:58

Finally a use for NC. Still think blitz should be -1 defence instead of -2...:thumbup:

ikr.

Helly
Sons of Mars

Posts: 5389
From: USA

24.12.2015 - 02:56

Helly

Written by Desu, 23.01.2013 at 10:57

And blitzkrieg still isn't adjusted. Pls halp blitz, think of the children. Also my 3rd fav strat ok:
Favorite strategies: Sky Menace, Imperialist, Blitzkrieg

And the DS does seem overnerfed with -1 AND no bonus defence. Give its defence bonus back at least. Or better yet, why not just -1 attack and one of the other compromises. I would like to revise, and say -1 attack shouldn't be accompanied with -1 defence.

Adjust it so it has its bonus back, and defence, and just add +10 cost or -1 range to the inf. -1 attack is fine, but I now realize that nerfing the defence just makes this strategy like TG, only able to attack.

edit: Also it'd be helpful if you completely removed IF's transport nerf. You only did it to -3, not -2.

This changes my opinion of you blitz brother!

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We are not the same- I am a Martian.

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